Recommendation:
Staffing reductions per class size guidelines policy (3 FTE) $165,000
Staffing reductions of 2.0 FTE Paraprofessional per class staffing needs $66,000
Special Education: Reduce Occupational Therapy Staff by .4 FTE $14,000
Special Education: Reduce Speech & Language by .3 FTE $10,000
District Administrator’s Office Budget $32,000
Building Budgets/Department Budgets – decrease by 5% $25,000
Increase student fees by 5% $10,000
Elementary Related Arts: Increase the instructional minutes that define FTE workload for Related Arts from 1280 to 1350 minutes of weekly instruction $17,500
Class Size: Change class size suggested ranges Middle School/High School $80,000
Reduce Maintenance/Custodial Overtime $20,000
Class Size: Increase High School Class Size to 26 $105,000
Reduce Staffing in 6-8 Music programs by 1 FTE $55,000
Reduce Athletic Budgets across middle and high school by 5% $23,000
Diversity Coordinator: Change to non-administrative position $10,000
Outsource Custodial Staff: 4 of 12 positions outsourced $116,000
SUBTOTAL $773,500
Additional Cuts without the Maywood/Winnequah Consolidation:
Extend walk area to 2 mile maximum $35,000
IMC Paraprofessionals – Eliminate all (4 FTE) IMC paraprofessionals (CG, TP, GD & HS) $132,000
Elementary Related Arts: Reduce instructional minutes per week (Art, Music, PE) grades 3-5 and K-2 (Art only) $91,000
Elementary Assistant Principal- Reduce to 40% at Maywood $22,000
These last 3 items are of grave concern to me as they will clearly have a negative impact on learning, and our core mission, district wide.
170 comments:
Did I miss something? I don't see any staff or administration furlough days or voluntary salary freezes.
Until that becomes a part of the conversation, we SHOULD keep cutting teachers. Someone is going to have to bring these people into the real world - hello, can you say RECESSION?
I say away with art. If you close Maywood, you can COUNT ON a defeated referendum next year. I hope the school board is really going to look at this with open minds and an eye toward the future.
You have it backwards, if you don't close Maywood you can COUNT ON a defeated referendum next year. The number of people who don't support wasteful spending is much larger than those who do.
I say close Maywood-there is not a feasible argument for keeping it open unless you want to increase class size?
I think if you do not close Maywood you are look at a failed referendum.
When those in favor of keeping Maywood open resort to threats, as above, its a sure sign that they are not motivated by concern for education or students.
Hard to imagine voters approving an operating referendum when two schools within blocks of each other are operating at less than capacity -- one of them less than 50 percent of capacity.
Irregardless the merits of closing Maywood, if you cut it, you are still only saving $60,000 or so, because, if i remember, it will cost upwards of $200,000 to remodel Winnequah to accommodate the K-3 children.
Perhaps my numbers are wrong, but the savings you get from closing Maywood don't amount to much this year.
Peter, can you explain?
Matt:
The cost of renovating Winnequah is a one-time cost, payable with dollars leftover from the 2006 building renovation that has already spent more than $3 million renovating Winnequah.
The cost of keeping Maywood open is a continuing, year-in-and-year-out cost. Keeping that school open costs the district roughly $260,000 a year -- just to keep the doors open and the lights on (along with support staff that would not have to be duplicated at Winnequah).
The savings to the district -- which would be used to KEEP TEACHERS instead of laying them off -- would be immediate and long-term should Maywood and Winnequah be combined.
Hi Peter,
"IMC Paraprofessionals – Eliminate all (4 FTE) IMC paraprofessionals (CG, TP, GD & HS) $132,000 "
So we are going to degrade the learning environment to save an aging K-2 school? The time for Maywood to close has come or face other cuts that are even more unpleasant.
Yes, Maywood only saves 50 this year, but 250 next.
Did ya like string fest?
Do ya like 27 in your kids el ed class or 30 in your kid's hs math class?
The district is going to sacrifice these things to let an aging bldg stay open and permit Winneq. to sit partially empty?
I think the argument do not cut this or that-we want to expand the pie-just does not work at this point.
The legislature needs to permit school districts to experiment 4 day weeks if they are not going to let the rev increase and until they do close Maywood.
Amazing that the Save Monona Schools facebook crowd is just now coming to the realization that -- gee -- keeping Maywood open may result in teachers losing jobs, and programs like art and music being cut. And that other folks in other parts of the district may want to keep those programs around.
One hopes the school board has the guts to stand up to the loud, persistent and vocal minority that insists where kids are taught is more important than how they are taught, or who teaches them. Extraordinary teachers in this district are at risk of leaving or being fired if Maywood stays open -- it's that simple.
"it's that simple."
The legislature has tied the hands of school districts which mean their boards and citizens are face with a 0 sum game.
The pie just can not be expanded in a quick and nimble manner.
moNOna voter
Good question. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money. The facts are that we are facing a deficit that grows each year. The savings from the consolidation might be smaller the first year, but in subsequent years we save the full amount. Over 5 years the budget deficit is $15M, consolidating Maywood would save $1.1+M or 7% of the total, including any remodeling costs.
Next year the budget deficit will almost certainly be worse, so it will be better to afford the remodeling costs this year and get the full savings next!
As for the costs - the estimate is $180,000 to provide everything that is wanted to accomodate those students. I bet if the board applies as thorough scrutiny to that list as we have to other items we can winnow it down a bit. And there may be a bit leftover from the referendum that can offset some of those costs.
If you don't think the district should keep Maywood at the expense of teachers and educational staff, call, email and show up tomorrow to voice your concerns!
I totally agree. Look at this list- the bottom three- and if you are thinking that keeping Maywood open is not worth these three cuts... call write email and show up tomorrow night- Save Monona Schools seems to have disappeared from Facebook- maybe they rethink and have their priorities straight....People and kids before buildings, folks
7% of the savings over 5 years is Maywood. Personnel is 80% of the budget. No one should be phrasing this as teachers vs. Maywood. Teachers and personnel are going to be severely impacted without a referendum. Adding 7% to a $15M referendum (for example) is a very small bump on your taxes to save a local school, programs AND personnel. Do not let anyone frame this as teachers or programs vs. a school when the board has a choice to go to referendum now or next year.
What am I supposed to do with all these blue salt bags that I am saving? Maywood supporters- don't forget to bring your blue salt bags to the board meeting Wednesday. We will need them when the board sends us sledding down the hill.
Salt bags? I see you are resorting to gimmicks because you can't make a coherent argument for cutting programs and staff in order to keep Maywood open.
"Do not let anyone frame this as teachers or programs vs. a school when the board has a choice to go to referendum now or next year."
How can any defender of a referendum ask the taxpayers for money (on top of the money they've given to build both the high school and middle school) to keep a school open when there's room next door for every single kid at Maywood?
The citizens of this district aren't dumb; they're pretty discerning people. They've turned down school referendums before -- the high school lost the first time around, as did the poorly designed two-middle school referendum.
What makes you think the voters of this district -- the MAJORITY of whom now live in Cottage Grove -- will suppor that?
how will cutting the art minutes per year affect the total teaching minutes that elementary teachers will have to have? That means you are essentially decreasing their prep time and face time with students. Does that make them have more minutes than their counterparts at older grades??
It is sad something like that is going to be cut. It is something (art) that which makes some kids actually enjoy school--for awhile.
I would rather see cuts that don't directly effect student instruction done before that cut. I know they are out there. Could you start charging for athletic events for instance (ie not letting kids in for free?)? Raise extracurricular fees?
The salt bags comment was a joke. Lighten up, angry people. If you had a kid at Maywood you'd understand. It's what they use to slide down the awesome sledding hill behind the school during recess. You can't duplicate that at Winnequah. The impact on your tax dollars? Nothing!!! In fact, tht hill probably saves tax dollars because the kids like to just roll down it during the rest of the year! Think of all the playground equipment they didn't have to purchase! Maywood probably saved thousands of dollars just with that hill alone!
All blue salt bags were donated and none were harmed in the typing of this message.
There is a letter to the School Board going around from mgsd.community@gmail.com. You can add your name if you send an email. Just give your name & where you live. They want to demonstrate support from both Monona & Cottage Grove.
To the Monona Grove School Board:
As you embark upon the difficult process of budget reductions for the 2010-2011 school year and beyond, we urge you to keep as many teachers and as much programming as possible -- which will benefit all of the students in the district. Your job as school board members is to make decisions that are in the best interest of the entire district.
Our goal is unity in the Monona Grove district. We must find ways to work together for the benefit of the students. We do not support anything divisive, such as splitting the district. The facts are that both communities need each other to remain strong. Both communities bring elements to the district that are critical for its success.
As you work on the budget in future years, please look for ways to increase revenues and reduce costs in areas that do not have a direct impact on the students. Great teachers and excellent programming have given our district a solid reputation in the area. Please do whatever you can to keep it that way.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Peter-
Here is a question, I was thinking about while walking today. If I was on the board-I would hold my nose and vote to close Maywood, but then the real fun begins.
The brd has moved 6th grade and closed Maywood. The comprise that was the referendum is undone.
How do you keep the force of a split petition at bay? I do not mean the split forces, but the shear force of anger, bitterness and the need to do something will move many people to leap before they think about what a split means.
It really isn't your job to do this and maybe there is nothing to do but wait, watch and hope. I would wonder if I were on the board if there was something I should do.
two bits
Here are the savings from closing Maywood per the School District itself - closing Maywood saves about $259,000 (this is a gross amount as we are not including remodeling costs at Winnequah) which leaves $4,741,000 in other cuts that need to be made. In other words, closing Maywood only addresses about 5% of the district’s operating budget shortfall over the next five years. Folks arguing to save programming and Maywood guess what – you are on the same side – we all need more funding – we all need a referendum and we need each other to get the votes to pass one.
Those numbers are not correct. Over 5 years we have a cummulative debt of $15M, structured so that it is $1M in the first year growing to $5M in the fifth. If we cut an additional $1M per year we get to $15M (1+2+3+4+5=15), but we don't have to do that. For example we could cut $3M this year and be done with cuts for five years (3+3+3+3+3=15). We would run a $2M surplus the first year and a $2M deficit the last but the net would be the same. Or we could do nothing for 4 years and cut $15M in the last year, the net results to the finances would be the same.
Savings accumulate every year.
Put it another way, $259,000 is equivalent of 4.5FTE teachers we can keep each year.
the choice tonight is easy. If we don't close maywood, we lose one FTE music teacher by reducing the minutes for music district wide. And, that teacher is the most talented music teacher in the district. it will be sad when those maywood kids do get to winnequah, and they have a music teacher who pops in to teach from CG and is not really a part of their school. Great.
I hope those who attended the wonderful strings concert Monday night, with hundreds of students participating, realize what's at stake at the board meeting tonight. Saving buildings means cutting people -- it's the reality of school budgets these days.
as much as it pains me, I think Maywood does need to close. But once it is gone, I have a feeling it won't come back. RIP Maywood...
I really don't think so. An increase of more than 100 students in Monona would require us to reopen Maywood to accomodate them. My opinion, based on consideration of the APL projections I think this may happen in 5-10 years. If we see that increase we would probably be in a better place place financially.
"In other words, closing Maywood only addresses about 5% of the district’s operating budget shortfall over the next five years. Folks arguing to save programming and Maywood guess what – you are on the same side – we all need more funding – we all need a referendum and we need each other to get the votes to pass one."
And? This argument does not make sense. You can not increase revenue. Thus, if you have to get to 1 million and 1 million is not exactly laying around in a treasure chest waiting for Dora to find it-unless we look at salaries and that is going no where.
So-Maywood gets you 5% closer to closing the gap and that is good thing because the only way this brd and admin is going to do it is a cut here and a cut there for right or wrong.
The skeptic in me thinks that the Board has generated this into a false choice between retaining Maywood or a popular art teacher.
"The skeptic in me thinks that the Board has generated this into a false choice between retaining Maywood or a popular art teacher."
No, it's not the skeptic in you. It's that part of you that doesn't want to accept a hard reality because that's human nature. So you look for a way to make it not so and you find someone to blame so you do not have to reconcile the realities in your own mind. And it's a music teacher, not an art teacher.
"'The skeptic in me thinks that the Board has generated this into a false choice between retaining Maywood or a popular art teacher.'"
"No, it's not the skeptic in you. It's that part of you that doesn't want to accept a hard reality because that's human nature. So you look for a way to make it not so and you find someone to blame so you do not have to reconcile the realities in your own mind. And it's a music teacher, not an art teacher."
Elementary Related Arts: Reduce instructional minutes per week (Art, Music, PE) grades 3-5 and K-2 (Art only) $91,000.
That's interesting, because I see "art" instructional minutes being reduced.
Peter -
Is it approximately $260K each year that we save if Maywood is closed?
After the first year, and compared to current expenditures, yes. The first year some of the savings will be offset by remodeling costs. Beyond that future savings may vary depending on external factors - for example if natural gas prices go down the savings will be smaller, if they go up, larger.
Is there any information on how many teachers are due to retire in the next 2 years, and in what departments these are from?
The board should try to use the attrition from these to plan the staff position cuts.
How much, if any, money would be saved by moving the district offices and/or alternative high school into Winnequah instead so that there are no remodeling costs to offset the gains?
Reducing Elementary Instructional Time for Art, PE and Music (Grades 3-5) and Art (Grades K-2) $91,000:
PE Grades 3-5 will go from 120 minutes to 90 minutes a week -- a 30 minute reduction that puts PE at 60% of DPI recommendations.
Art Grades 1-5 will go from 80 minutes to 60 minutes a week -- a 20 minute reduction that puts Art at 66% of DPI recommendations.
Music Grades 3-5 will go from 80 minutes to 60 minutes a week -- a 20 minute reduction that puts Music at 80% of DPI recommendations.
Kindergarten Art will go from 40 minutes to 30 minutes a week -- DPI recommendations not available.
Teachers could be lost in all three areas -- art, music & PE.
"How much, if any, money would be saved by moving the district offices and/or alternative high school into Winnequah instead so that there are no remodeling costs to offset the gains?"
1. So you want to put the alt. HS in an el. ed bldg?
Have you thought that one through?
Is your sole quest to keep Maywood open regardless of anything else in the world?
"1. So you want to put the alt. HS in an el. ed bldg?
Have you thought that one through?
Is your sole quest to keep Maywood open regardless of anything else in the world?"
Is it necessary to be so rude!?!
Who's to say I even care if Maywood stays open. Perhaps I'm just a concerned citizen looking for solutions to save the school AND programs ..... 'cause from the looks of things they're both going to be lost in the long run.
Really, both "sides" of this argument should be working together since both will ultimately lose!
At least some people are trying to come up with other solutions instead of just cutting back on everything except what really costs money........like benefits. I worked for a company that had to decrease health benefits due to a rough economy at the time. No one liked it, but it was better than having no job at all. Ask the teachers who will get cut eventually which they'd rather have....their co-workers with outstanding benefits or a job??
So ok, you don't like the alt HS there, fine. What about moving the district offices and renting out Nichols? Has that been considered?
Health-care benefits -- for teachers and other union employees in the district -- are almost a separate budget discussion, because those benefits are part of negotiations overseen by state and federal law. Sure, you can rip away benefits for administrators, but then you risk losing some good people. The district can't simply unilaterally impose wage or benefit changes on its employees.
At some point, budget shortfalls like MG's involve people -- you can shuffle around all the offices you want, but you will eventually start getting rid of people.
There is lots of room available for rent at Nichols -- and it's been known to be available for a while now (since the middle school referendum passed). That it hasn't been is a pretty good sign that the market for office rental space is pretty bad right now -- ask any commercial realtor, and they'll tell you it's the worst its been in years. That's not to say something creative or different can't be done there, but it's an old school building with limited ability to change its configuation without a large investment of dollars.
Monona Resident Here:
Nice job tonight, Peter. I was impressed at your logic, emotions and backbone in the face of a tough subject.
Very disappointed, but not surprised, in Susan "Need More Info" Manning (she will not be getting my vote, and I will be making sure to let as many people in CG and Monona as possible to vote for Pickel) and Susan Fox.
It's pretty obvious that there was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff going on to get the delay through. I believe that we've lost credibility by choosing to keep open two schools in Monona that will be under capacity. Can you imagine the outrage that would incur should it be the case in Cottage Grove?
Very disappointed with Hizzoner Kahl. What an ego that guy must have--I've heard that he's out making promises about selling Nichols and helping a referenda get passed with the help of a delay. Dream on...have you seen the open office spaces available in Dane County? Hey, maybe the city of Monona will buy it as part of their redevelopment. Oh well, at least he didn't send the Monona Police out last night to leaflet the neighborhoods. What a joke.
Very disappointed that the board didn't choose to save positions over a building.
How do u feel now peter? Guess u should have done some more lobbying. I hope the election goes as good as this vote did. Lesson learned for u I hope.
i hope u r not a mg graduate
How do I feel? Saddened. At least Susan Fox had the candor to admit that although it was a poor educational and fiscal decision she was going to vote for it anyway because of the politics. This is a poor decision and it will come back to bite us.
And what about everything that was "tabled" until after the election??? No hard decisions will be made until April 7th??? These items have been on the list since December and now we're asking questions and don't have enough information???
If the Silent Majority is really out there, I sure hope you get to the polls on April 6th and vote Sobol & Pickel!
Absolutely right! Cottage Grove AND Monona must choose the folks who will make the right EDUCATIONAL decisions. I heard the crowd last night described as "jubilant". Jubilant over losing an art teacher, a music teacher, a bunch of library aides all of who dedicate their lives right now to teaching our kids. Now their jobs are gone- thanks to the Save Monona Schools crowds and their adult attachment to a building. Yes, they are dancing in the streets while the rest of us know what a huge loss this is for our KIDS.
Vote Sobol and Vote Pickel. Send them some money too.
Another Monona resident.
Congratulations school board - you just let the teachers and staff of the district know where they stand. Good luck with those negotiations.
So here’s where things stand. Maywood will remain open. Winnequah will operate at 30% capacity next year. The board still needs to find $250K to cut from the budget, but will wait until after the election to do so.
The items remaining on the table are a bus route in COTTAGE GROVE, 4 IMC paraprofessionals impacting every student from COTTAGE GROVE, reductions to elementary related arts impacting every elementary student in the ENTIRE DISTRICT, 73% of whom live in COTTAGE GROVE, and $25,000 of the building budgets.
Over half of the registered voters in the district live in Cottage Grove and the school board thinks they only have to keep Monona residents happy to pass a referendum. I guess this is what happens when you let politicians rule the schools.
Hopefully people will let the board – in particular the four who voted to delay the decision – Susan Fox, Susan Manning, Jessica Ace & Lionel Norton – know exactly what you think of their actions last night.
And since Mayor Kahl and Village President Mikalsen think they know what is best for the students in Monona Grove, you might want to send a few choice words their way too.
I noticed that not one of those brave souls like the mayor stayed around to watch the board fire people to pay for Maywood. Way to go Rob - life sure is rosy where you live. Don't think we don't notice that you are stripping resources from MY kids to benefit yours.
This from Mononarag, celebrating the board's vote:
"Share your thoughts – where should Monona go from here."
How about recognizing the district doesn't revolve around the city of Monona? The board has chosen a short-sighted decision, placating angry and vocal constituents in Monona, while degrading the education for students throughout the entire district, particularly the 2,700-some students who don't attend Maywood. A sad day for the Monona Grove school district.
"How do u feel now peter? Guess u should have done some more lobbying. I hope the election goes as good as this vote did. Lesson learned for u I hope."
That is just crap-
It really is crap. I hope folks understand that unless money grows on trees the board is going to be forced to make some cuts that will in crease class sizes and make our schools less then the were.
"Care about education? Vote Sobol and Pickel. Manning believes Maywood is more important than art and music and she does not believe in transparent decision making."
heavy accusation there-there is a way to find that kind of stuff out w a open records request-but what is the point at this point?
Open records request will prove nothing as it does not track phone calls and conversations. You would have to be an idiot to not realize what has happened behind the scenes. The public never had a say in this, but there is one board member up for re-election who played along with the deal-making out of the public eye so she could continue to pander to her Monona crowd, and one who voted for kids, art and music because he wanted to do the right thing regardless of how it might affect him in the election. Think about that when you vote.
Decisions by public bodies, especially controversial ones like this one, can be seen as less than legitimate if made behind the scenes.
From what I understand, the decision to reduce arts and music hours was also tabled until April 7th.
I think some facts are getting lost in the rhetoric.
And please don't make this into a Cottage Grove vs. Monona issue. Been there, done that.
Anonymous slander. Nice.
"Anonymous slander. Nice."
Technically, defamation. But I get your point.
"And please don't make this into a Cottage Grove vs. Monona issue. Been there, done that."
How can people who legitimately disagree with the board's decision to keep Maywood open not think along these lines? You have:
-- The likes of Barbara Backett, a vocal proponent of keeping Maywood open, urging Monona residents to split the district and suggesting Cottage Grove residents are parasites. (See comments section of this: http://www.mononarag.com/?p=72#comments
-- The school board president candidly admitting the decision was largely about politics, and not educational quality.
-- The Save Monona Schools facebook page (now defunct, apparently) repeatedly saying this issue was about Monona's needs, not the needs of the entire school district.
-- Mononarag, yet again, asking "were Monona should go from here," as if no one in Cottage Grove has a stake in this issue, or won't be affected by this decision.
The board risks doing a lot of long-term damage to the school district with this decision. Buildings that are closed can be re-opened (as Nichols did a number of years ago). Laid-off teachers rarely return, and the district is on the brink of losing a bunch of good (and truly exceptional, in many cases) ones.
"Obviously, he didn't have enough time to learn his lines."
I think that is unfair to Lionel seemed to be genuinely torn about what to do.
Heck-his vote was ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yena and then fox said what?
Many of you on here are off your rocker! Behind the scenes deal! Get a grip! I think 904 signatures from (Monona AND Cottage Grove) and lots of questions and possibilities got the best of the board as it should have. We live in a democracy and they listened to the people. If the majority did not want to keep Maywood open to look at all the possibilities, then why didn't they speak up? I think that petition less than 100 signatures.
And is one year that bad to make sure we are doing the right thing if it does come down to needing to close the school? Peter, you said yourself "we could do nothing for 4 years and cut $15M in the last year, the net results to the finances would be the same." Clearly we don't want to do nothing for 4 years, but if we don't reach the ENTIRE $1 million this year (say we only get $500,000 to $750,000) it doesn't sound like it will hurt us that bad. Yes, it will tack on, but if we will need a referendum anyway ..... I as a tax payer will absolutely pay $13 more per $100,000 of home value (to follow the $50 per $100,000 approximate ratio calculation given last night for a $1 million referendum.) to be sure that closing the school was the right answer. It doesn't have to be all or nothing!
Also, how will the savings from the custodial and food service salary freezes help? Can that go toward saving some art, music, or imc staff? I have no idea how much money their freezes save, but could you give us an idea Peter? Will that help? I know it's probably not $260,000, but it will help, right?
The MAJORITY of the people thought the answer was so OBVIOUS that they didn't have to speak up. Big mistake. Lesson learned.
Love to see that petition and how many people from Cottage Grove actually signed.
Hello all, I am trying to keep the line of communication open to all of us who are in this financial crisis we are all dealing with. Please join my group! This discussion is very important.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Monona-Groves-Fine-Arts-Programming/105121406188889?ref=nf
"The MAJORITY of the people thought the answer was so OBVIOUS that they didn't have to speak up. Big mistake. Lesson learned."
I'd have to agree, there is a group out there that is definitely good at politics. The rest of us are good at Math: 5*250K/15M = 8.3%
I never got the impression that Sobol was lobbying to close Maywood. His points were clear why he did so, and he's made them in response to questions on this blog, but I don't think I've seen a single post lobbying for Maywood's closure. I know he didn't send flyers around town or a "Close Maywood" Facebook page. I would call his actions appropriate for a board member.
Former aldermen McKeever made a point a while ago that nobody wanted to make any cuts. Everyone would have kept Maywood open if the budget was fine. The cuts force people to prioritize what is important, and it's ok for people to have different priorities (including saving Maywood).
I really wanted to hear dialog from the "Save Monona School" crowd that admitted this was a tough decision that came between a building and programs. I don't think I heard that. The issue seemed to turn into a debate between emotion and logic. The "How do u feel" post shows how much emotion some still have (whether they're in the Facebook group or not). This emotion is what fueled the lobbying I saw.
Emotion can very powerful, but it isn't as organized as the district needs to deal with the costs of Maywood being open. I really hope there is an energized person who can set up a Charter School, but I know it will be a lot of work and a lot of organization and logic too. I really hope the effort that went into keeping Maywood open, supports a referendum and convinces 51% of voters the way it convinced 4/7 of the board. That means more then just parents of young kids, that means seniors, singles, and the unemployed. When it comes to raising taxes, a new set of emotions are going to develop. It will be a lot of work too.
If the crowd that saved Maywood will take their happiness on Wednesday as reward for their work, they will get a much bigger reward by doing the hard lobbying these projects need. Congratulations about yesterday, now please help Sobol and the School Board solve the budget issue.
"I as a tax payer will absolutely pay $13 more per $100,000 of home value (to follow the $50 per $100,000 approximate ratio calculation given last night for a $1 million referendum.) to be sure that closing the school was the right answer."
And many taxpayers of this DISTRICT will not. You are living in a dream world if you think that voters will not question -- with their tax dollars on the line via an operating referendum -- keeping a school open when there is plenty of room available next door, with the same teachers in it, led by arguably the most capable principal in the district.
This decision absolutely means good teachers will leave the district. And start with Jill Jensen and Peter Kuzma. Those who argued for keeping Maywood open need to know just what their advocacy will lead to -- the permanent loss of quality teachers.
Hooray for Monona! Hooray for Ace and Manning in particular for making the motion to save Maywood. Way to show those Grovers, the School Board and the administration that we still rule this district! Victory to Monona!
The reason that the Save Monona Schools group won me and Mike Mikalsen over to their side is because they presented a positive vision of the future of the school district, in contrast to much of the rhetoric that had been coming out of Monona previously.
Now that we are going to have a temporary loss of some programming and staff, it is the pro-programming people who are going negative. That is not helpful.
To be clear, there is nothing temporary about the losses to programming and staff. To say otherwise is false.
Check out who Mike Mikalsen works for. Then tell us you trust anything he says about anything.
"And many taxpayers of this DISTRICT will not. You are living in a dream world if you think that voters will not question -- with their tax dollars on the line via an operating referendum -- keeping a school open when there is plenty of room available next door, with the same teachers in it, led by arguably the most capable principal in the district.
This decision absolutely means good teachers will leave the district. And start with Jill Jensen and Peter Kuzma. Those who argued for keeping Maywood open need to know just what their advocacy will lead to -- the permanent loss of quality teachers."
I have to agree with this poster. Anyone from the pro-maywood crowd want to state why we kept it open. President Foxxx said politics...other reasons.
I personnally read both positive and negative remarks from the "Save Monona Schools" on Facebook but it's hard for me to say it was a positive vision.
I truely belive that the young parents were being positive, but there was a small, usually older group, that was angry at Cottage Grove, and felt Monona was paying 3times as much in taxes (under some of the strangest math I've seen).
What I didn't see from the "Save Monona Schools" group, was a clear path for how to solve the budget problem, or a leader who could take us down the path. Nor did I see an immediate solution to fix the problem we face now.
I applaud the ideas, such as moving the District Office, or a Charter School, and I do think a few people, probably young parents, will look into them. But these will take a lot of work and time, and we need to save money now.
As far as leadership, I think many of the parents who took the petitions had good intentions, but didn't offer a direction. The best leadership came from the Mayor, who mobilized people and whose ideas I respected, but I suspect he will not keep it up now that the issue has past.
I also felt Manning, who I would call the leader on the school board seemed to have no idea about the cuts even after 4 months of meetings. Even last night she seemed to be avoiding the tough decisions. The Facebook page seemed to spend too much time campaining for her, which to me ignores the immediate budget problem further. This is perhaps the biggest reason I couldn't side with the "Save Monona Schools" crowd. I don't see ignoring something as positive.
Please do not take this as an attemt to be rude. I hope the Mayor, Manning or some parents will prove me wrong, and get a great Charter School at Nichols that brings in 200 new students. But until that is an option for the Board to vote on, I will still think that saving staff is better then saving a building.
Did anyone see the strings tied to the arms of Ace, Manning, Norton and Fox? The Mayor was tugging on them all night. Apparently he needs another job, so he is taking over the school board also.
Thanks, but not thanks Mayor. You have screwed up our beloved Monona enough, leave the school district alone.
Shame on you, Ace, Manning, Fox and Norton. Shame on you for putting your personal feelings ahead of the best interests of the kids. You do a disservice to the taxpayers of this district. Shame on you for wasting their money. Shame on you for being so trasparently weak that you caved to the vocal minority. Shame on you for not being educated enough to DO YOUR JOBS!!! This is a school board, not the Prom Court. Are you afraid you won't get invited to the next sleepover???Manning, you do not respresent me or my children and I will not vote for you. SHAME!!!!
"Shame on you for putting your personal feelings ahead of the best interests of the kids. You do a disservice to the taxpayers of this district. "
I think keeping Maywood open says we do not care about you to other moving parts of the district. The political problem is that it will come back to haunt us as it should. It is a shortsighted deal by the board.
I know this is a little heated, put please try and be polite and stick to the facts in evidence.
Opinions, as always, are welcome.
I am saddened by all the mud slinging that's going on on this site.
It was a tough decision, but now it's made and the time has come for work.
There are a lot of creative options floating around and I hope that they will come to life and make a difference as intended.
Please, let's stop arguing over what has happened and work together to deal with what we are faced with. We were facing a referendum and possibly lost programs and/or teachers regardless of last night's outcome. Now we need to come together to preserve what makes our communities special.
That's all fine and good, and positive energy is a good thing. But defenders of the board's vote -- and even those who may not like it but want to move beyond the acrimony -- need to understand and explain how keeping a school open, with space available next door, can be reconciled with the loss of teachers. That seems to be fundamental difference in how one views the priorities of the district.
"how will cutting the art minutes per year affect the total teaching minutes that elementary teachers will have to have? That means you are essentially decreasing their prep time and face time with students. Does that make them have more minutes than their counterparts at older grades??"
The primary and elementary teachers already teach hundreds of minutes more each week than the core teachers at the middle school or the high school. The school board should ask for the numbers. This is another reason why not looking at the current structure of the middle school core teaching minuters (5 classes rather than 4) is beyond ridiculous. I respect Ms. Tennant, but saying in January that there isn't time to look at and make changes to the schedules (which is a paper and pencil activity or hopefully a computer program) when people believed there was time to consolidate two buildings within two months is unbelievable. I am for the consolidation of Maywood and Winneqauh, but am I the only one seeing the irony? When calculated, the Kindergarten homeroom teachers teach 1,550 minutes per week, grades 1-2 teach 1,510, and grades 3-5 teach 1,390. Winnequah 6th grade
teaches 1,190 and GD 6th grade teaches 1,170. Core 7th and 8th grade teachers teach 1,100 minutes and 9-12 teachers teaching 5 core classes teach 1,175. 7-12th grade teachers do have other face to face time with students but it isn't a time for which they have to plan lessons, assign new work, or be responsible for reporting student progress to parents. Could we get instructional minutes more in line?
If we decrease related arts (art, music, phy.ed, IMC) minutes for the 3-5 homerooms, teachers will lose 80 minutes of planning/correcting/communicating with parents/collaborating with each other minutes. They will have more face-to-face time with students (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The bad thing is not having adequate time to plan). Since teachers at higher grades already teach fewer minutes are we saying our youngest students deserve teachers who have the least time to plan for them?
It seems like we have it all backwards. When I volunteer in my son's elementary classroom, I witness 3-5 (depending upon the text)leveled groups. I see the teacher working to meet the instructional needs of her first through seventh grade readers. Seriously! By the time our students reach the high school, they are in English 9A or 9B. They are in advanced math, they are in grade level math, or they might be repeating a class. The teachers are not creating 3-4 leveled lesson plans each day for each subject.
Elementary staff should not be losing planning time, it should be increased.
Elementary teachers took another hit Wednesday night when the related arts teaching minutes increased to 1,350. Again, this is a higher number than the core 7th through 12th grade teaching staff. Please explain why this is true.
"Elementary teachers took another hit Wednesday night when the related arts teaching minutes increased to 1,350. Again, this is a higher number than the core 7th through 12th grade teaching staff. Please explain why this is true."
Oh but dear sir-the brd is for the children this was done for the children, horse hockey.
There is not a justicification short of - I might get lonely.
"Elementary teachers took another hit Wednesday night when the related arts teaching minutes increased to 1,350. Again, this is a higher number than the core 7th through 12th grade teaching staff. Please explain why this is true. "
Good luck with getting a 0 increase in wages-but everyone feels good!
What?
Why hasn't a cut in pay for every employee of the MG School District been brought up? My husband works for a large nationwide company that cut every employee's pay by 10% and got rid of overtime pay. And overtime is a necessary part of most positions there. Pay cuts across the board seem to be the norm for a lot of companies dealing with these hard economic times. Is this something that has been considered by the board?
Why would the staff agree to a wage freeze when the district just gave them the middle finger and said that buildings are more important than staff.
Manning keeps saying the staff is "family" and then she treats them like this. With family like that who need enemies.
I agree- are you seriously suggesting that the staff should volunteer pay cuts to support the board's bad fiscal decision?
Wage freezes, no. It would need to be wage cuts. Like practically everyone else working in this economy right now. Nobody wants to take a pay cut, but people in all professions are losing their jobs left and right. Losing their entire incomes and careers! Having to look for new jobs/careers. That's what's going on right now because of the recession. Not just in the schools. Why not everyone in the school district take a small pay cut rather than cutting programs and teaching positions and/or administrative positions? It's all about money. And a pay cut across the board would be a logical way to cut expenses.
The budget problem facing our school district can't be resolved long term by pitting Cottage Grove and Monona residents against each other. That is exactly what the Maywood/Winnequah matter would have achieved without a delay.
The delay in considering this consolidation would not have prevented the budget cuts adopted last night. What wasn't cut this year would have been cut next year.
If neighborhood schools are important in Cottage Grove, they should also be important for Monona.
It is the role of administrators/staff to recommend and the school board's job to decide. The school board made a decision based on public input from both communities.
I feel horrible that any person loses a job because of the economic crisis. However, the lists of reductions debated last night failed to include any wage and benefit concessions by district employees.
The job losses last night are not the result of the Maywood decision. That is misleading, since it implies no other choices for savings exists.
The job losses can easily be restored if all employees of the school district do nothing more or nothing less than most everyone else has already done since 2008...shared sacrifice.
The parents and children of Cottage Grove will need the support of Monona both in terms of a possible operating referendum and long-term space issues. The same goes for Monona parents and children, they will need Cottage Grove to support a possible operating referendum and initiatives on saving neighborhood schools in that community.
Significant and difficult budget reductions are unavoidable. It will hurt. Our kids will sacrifice, the taxpayers will also eventually sacrifice, but the big unknown is whether district employees will sacrifice from top to bottom.
Good to see the continued, occasionally veild, threats from elected leaders who live in the district. First Monona's mayor essentially blackmails the board, telling them to keep Maywood open or he'll dump on an operating referendum that everyone knows is coming. Now we have the head-in-the-sand village president saying district employees should cut their wages and benefits in order to avoid layoffs of their colleagues -- nice.
One question -- why don't either one of these guys run for the public office (school board) they seem so intent on telling what to do?
Everyone is having to take pay cuts and layoffs in every profession. Wouldn't you rather have that happen than have our schools lose teachers and programs instead? I think it's your head that is in the sand.
Peter-
I did support closing Maywood.
My rational is that the learning environment from many facets will degrade for Maywood students and other students in the district?
Agreed?
The analogy of what private corporations have done with respect to wage cuts, freezes etc. has come up a few times in this discussion. Lets continue that analogy.
There is no corporation out there that would choose to first reduce its product output (aka remove teachers) while leaving in tact under utilized buildings that take $260K/year off its bottom line.
Get yourself as efficient as possible first, then we can talk about wage issues.
In private industry, there can be some pretty decent raises and bonuses when times are good. When the economy is good, do teachers ever see big raises or bonuses? I don't think the private vs. public comparison is valid.
Consolidating the schools seems to be an "eventuality" so why wait a year to do so when we could be saving money for the district now? We simply shouldn't keep two half-utilized buildings opened just because we "might" fill up the space in one to three years. Buildings can be reopened when enrollment, whether it comes from a charter school or from new students entering the district, increases! The programming and teaching cuts that are being discussed will have a very direct impact on student learning now. The Board CAN and SHOULD change this decision. They have been able to reverse decisions in the past (ie. Assistant Principal position for Maywood last year.)
Did you hear the number of signatures for and against consolidation? The signatures against far outnumbered the against by a landslide! Accept the board's decision and move on.
Correction on the previous submission - the number against far outnumbered the number for...
"Did you hear the number of signatures for and against consolidation? The signatures against far outnumbered the against by a landslide! Accept the board's decision and move on."
Yes-but that does not negate the fact that the learning environment will be degraded because the brd made a political decision rather than an educational decision.
We live in a democracy. The board is elected by the people. The people need to be heard.
THe number of signatures was simply a function of the number of people sent out to solicite them. A different petiton: say one that said "Should 5 teachers be laid off to preserve Maywood" or a petition circulated in CG would easily have produced a different result.
I personally have talked to people who signed the petition, and they were not told that signing would result in $250K in cuts elsewhere to the budget. MOST Of them, when told that, say they wouldn't of signed, in fact one person CRIED. Its a shame that the bullies circulating the petition didn't write one that fully informed the signers what would happen. ANd its pathetic and shameful that they left the meeting before the board proceeded to lay educators off in the wake of their selfish actions.
Can we all take the effort to type in some type of name instead of using the "Anonymous" identity. It will make it easier to follow the discussion thread. You don't have to use your own name, just something to help keep track of the conversation.
Its easy to do:
1. Click on "Name/URL".
2. Enter a name
3. Leave the URL blank.
-Shawn
OK, thanks for the suggestion.
If a group of citizens gather more signatures asking the board to reverse the decision, should they?
"but the big unknown is whether district employees will sacrifice from top to bottom."
With all due respect, what do you think is happening with these cuts? All employees, teachers and principals in particular, are having to take on increased resposibilities with these cuts (at least those that will still have their jobs next year.) Larger class sizes, more hours, less support staff, decreased building resources. They're having to do more with less and you think they aren't sacrificing from top to bottom? I think that you are seriously misguided in that statement and hope that you will reconsider what you think defines sacrifice.
In fact, I hope you'll give all of this more thought and reconsider your position. I think that many of the statements you made above actually do more harm than good. You're right, this is not a Monona vs Cottage Grove issue, so why are you framing it as such?
I do not know if it is a good idea to assume the teachers should accept wage concessions. But what really bugs me is the silence of the union on this issue. Why are they not weighing in? Either offer to discuss concessions or issue a statement as to why they will not. As individuals most of our teachers are wonderful, but the organization that represents them has been absent from this crisis and that stinks.
Anon1:
"Should they?" No, because that leads us to a process where petitions replace the referendum process. Petitions are not an accurate way to ascertain what the democratic majority wants.
"Would they?" I have no idea, I have given up trying understand how this board makes decisions.
Why should the teacher's volunteer to give wage concessions when they see the district not running as efficiently as possible AND saying that the people value buildings more than educators.
Under those conditions would you volunteer to give up salary?
The teachers have a legit argument that if the district can afford to support 1/2 empty buildings then the district can afford to give them a raise, no?
How about sending some of the elementary kids from CG to schools in Monona. That would ease the overcrowding issue in CG that has been a problem for so long and fill up the classrooms and buildings in Monona.
Anon1 said:
"The teachers have a legit argument that if the district can afford to support 1/2 empty buildings then the district can afford to give them a raise, no?"
The teachers will certainly have legitimate arguments & questions if asked to take pay cuts.
And so will the taxpayers of Monona and Cottage Grove if/when they are asked to pay higher property taxes in a referendum.
"How about sending some of the elementary kids from CG to schools in Monona. That would ease the overcrowding issue in CG that has been a problem for so long and fill up the classrooms and buildings in Monona."
This does not save money. A temporary classroom would be cheaper than the busing. Also the crowding is not that bad and will likely ease in coming years.
"How about sending some of the elementary kids from CG to schools in Monona. That would ease the overcrowding issue in CG that has been a problem for so long and fill up the classrooms and buildings in Monona."
For the 100th time, CG schools are not overcrowded. Taylor Prairie is at capacity. Glacial Drumlin is under capacity, and putting Monona 6th graders there will simply fill up for all of the day classrooms that now sit empty most of the day. CG School itself is "croweded" on the order of one or two classrooms. And the enormous cost of bussing kids from CG to Monona does nothing to help the district's budget problems; it makes them worse.
Good gracious -- is "fill up the classrooms and buildings in Monona" really the most important task of the district right now? How about keeping good teachers who are now going to leave/be laid off from classrooms all over the district?
Shawn -- when prominent residents of the district, who advocate certain things like keeping elementary schools open, compare those who oppose such measures to "parasites," as was done this past week on another blog, there is a natural tendency for people who want to engage in reasoned debate to keep their names private.
Signed -- Jane Doe.
Shawn -- when prominent residents of the district, who advocate certain things like keeping elementary schools open, compare those who oppose such measures to "parasites," as was done this past week on another blog, there is a natural tendency for people who want to engage in reasoned debate to keep their names private.
Signed -- Jane Doe.
Jane Doe - No problem, I'm not asking everyone to sign their name, just use a unique "sign-in" name to help with the flow of the dialog. (they can be fun too)
Peter: is there a way to set up the blog to allow "reply to" options for particular posts? That would keep the discussion threads more concise.
-Shawn
Give me some suggestions for distinct threads and I will start new topics for each.
Peter,
I guess I am not explaining my request very well.
I was wondering if the blog can be setup to reply to a particular comment, so that the reply shows up under that comment and so on.
This would make it easier to present a counter point to a particular comment without having to cut-n-paste the comment to which one is replying. And that reply would show up directly under (attached to) the original comment, not two or three comments down in the chain.
Here's an example (go to the comment section at the end of this article)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/26/new-usrussia-nuclear-pact_n_514528.html
Thanks
"Give me some suggestions for distinct threads and I will start new topics for each."
The superintendent's -- oops, I mean mayor's, as he seems to be the one running the school district these days -- green charter school.
New MGSD slogan:
Wake up and smell the failure
or
Where Kids Don't Matter
Please stop the insults and hostility. Or rather share them with your close friends as opposed to the blogs, they're the ones who will appreciate them. The insults may help you feel better temporarily, but there's nothing constructive in it.
Both sides of this debate have a lot of work to be done. Hopefully everyone can focus this negative energy into something positive. If not we each have more to lose.
Those that don't want to lose programs and teachers need to figure out how we can save those that we haven't lost already. If we don't we're sure to lose more next year.
And those that don't want to lose Maywood need to figure out how to continue keeping it open with more than what's been presented this year. Like the other cuts that didn't get made this year, it'll be back on the table again next year.
A referendum may be a great idea, but I don't think either side should count on it passing.
"There is no corporation out there that would choose to first reduce its product output (aka remove teachers) while leaving in tact under utilized buildings that take $260K/year off its bottom line."
But they would close a building already producing a quality output (aka happy well educated children) while they left another building mostly empty with only admin offices in it which they could consolidate instead at less cost than moving an intact successful process?
I think they too would look a little deeper.
"I think they too would look a little deeper."
Then they should have done that before they voted. They look like knotheads.
"There is no corporation out there that would choose to first reduce its product output (aka remove teachers) while leaving in tact under utilized buildings that take $260K/year off its bottom line."
But they would close a building already producing a quality output (aka happy well educated children) while they left another building mostly empty with only admin offices in it which they could consolidate instead at less cost than moving an intact successful process?
I think they too would look a little deeper.
As a matter of fact they would. A business that could significantly lower its cost of production by consolidating an 80% full building into a 35% full building certainly would. A business would make most efficient use of its buildings.
And no, the savings of moving administration into winnequah would be no where near the savings of closing maywood.
MG taxpayer said:
But they would close a building already producing a quality output (aka happy well educated children) while they left another building mostly empty with only admin offices in it which they could consolidate instead at less cost than moving an intact successful process?
Can you expand and provide some more details on this idea? I take it you're talking about moving admin offices out of nichols and into Winnequah.
PS. Thanks for using a unique sign in.
"MOST Of them, when told that, say they wouldn't of signed, in fact one person CRIED. Its a shame that the bullies circulating the petition didn't write one that fully informed the signers what would happen."
The petitioners, who were not "bullies", did not write that in because that's not what they were going for. Unfortunately, the teachers and programs were next on the chopping block. That was going to happen regardless, even if they did/do close Maywood. Where do you think $750,000 is going to come from for the next 4 years?
And since it may have been nearly a wash to consolidate this year due to remodeling costs, wouldn't they have still had to come up with $ this year to decrease the budget? Where would that come from? If they have money to cover the remodel why don't they use it to save those teachers now? If they don't need to make up for what it would have cost to remodel, why do they need to cut the teachers?
Dear Hopeful,
The money for remodeling was coming from left over referendum dollars. This is money that cannot be legally used for teachers. The first year savings is $250,000 if you consolidate Maywood and Winnequah.
Bottom line is that $250k could be used to save teachers that will now be laid off. Petitioners did not tell people the whole story. Many who signed this did not realize that if we were to merge these schools next year, we could save teachers and have smaller class sizes.
This is not over by a long shot. When the identifies of the teachers lost are known it will not be pretty.
When people come to a door with a little girl who says "please save my school", that's bullying.
And the little girl should have said "please save my librarian and my art program" if she knew what was good for her, instead of doing what her parent told her.
I think Maywood should have been closed, but also would have liked to hear info about moving the admin out of Nichols. I think the lack of data on this gave an 'out' to vote for the delay, and I suspect the numbers from moving the admin would not be as high as moving Maywood.
Nichols has 2 halfs, and the 'school' side is pretty much shut down all ready. You would only save the utilities on the smaller admin side. Not only is this side smaller, but it's vertical, and heat (which is more expensive then air conditioning) rises, so the layout saves a little money over similar square footage. The building is old, so this might not make as much difference.
Much of the savings in closing Maywood were from duplicate support staff, or staff travel time. It's bad to be cutting support staff, but a cook or custodian has less effect then an art teacher.
The staff that work in both Maywood and Winnequah get paid for the 5 minutes it takes to get between buildings. That 5 minutes could come back by making a 1.0 position a .95 position, keeping most of a job (I hate to talk about staff working .95 of a job, but I have to). Regardless of how the savings was found in staff, the main point is there is staff savings in Maywood that the admin building doesn't have. I don't think the administrators get hot lunch or a full time custodian.
Nichols has the Alt HS in it, and I think it used to cost $20,000 in rent for this. This is a cost that would probably be added to the budget each year. Remodeling and playground equipment would be a one time expense, and some is covered by referendum money. I also think most who people wouldn't want kindergardeners with 5th graders would really not want 3rd graders with HS kids, so a new location would have to be found.
It would be nice to see the real numbers, but in my head it seems moving Maywood to Winnequah would save more than moving the Administration Building to either location.
Let me correct part of my previous post.
I think when the Alt School was in a building separate from Nichols, the District paid $20,000 a year in rent. They moved it into the basement of Nichols to save this money. If the Alt School has to move (and can't move to Winnequah) it would probably cost another $20,000 each year in rent. This is an opperational (yearly) expense, not a capital (one time) expense.
Peter-
Maybe you should call a couple brd members-convince them to change their votes or talk about what has been wrought....that would'nt be illegal now would it?
funny how-something you hate in someone is what you become.
Furlough all administrative employees for 8 days over the summer. That should bring their salaries down like everyone elses.
Next year everyone gets a take a 5% pay cut. And I mean EVERYONE - teachers, admin, support, etc. That will fix your budget problem. What is the total annual salary line for MGSD?
And now that we have Obamacare, we can dump the districts health care benefits onto the Feds too! Think of the savings!
Move the Winnequah kids to Nichols and keep Maywood open. Tear down Winnequah and build a state of the art k-5 facility with a large gym, cafeteria, geo-thermal HVAC. Once complete, close Maywood and Nichols (again). Sell those properties (and DON'T GIVE them away to Homburg or some other developer). Have administrators decentralized to the schools so we don't need an admin building.
Just think how green and progressive we could be!
I don't mind the cuts proposed as long as they are done proportionally. By that I mean between communities. We are constantly bombarded by the following:
"Only 1/3 of the district's students come from Monona..."
So, I hope the school board allocates these budget cuts accordingly with 2/3 of the cuts coming in CG school programs and personnel.
We are one district, so let's share the pain as one - but proportionally.
The proposed cuts which are traded off against Maywood school include cuts to busing which will effect students in CG almost exclusively, cuts to library staff in CG elementary schools, but not Monona elementary schools, and equal cuts to elementary related arts district wide. These fall disproportionally on CG students.
Peter and the other MGSD Board Members:
Here are some thoughts to ponder as you try to balance the district budget now and in future years.
State revenues continue to fall. Don't look to the state to help MGSD out of their budget problems. "Not gonna happen" as Bush I used to say. The "education governor" isn't running this year.
Equalized property values have been relatively flat. Housing markets are flat and commercial too. Price drops in real property are still coming. All things being equal this will result in higher mill rates at tax time. Keep your eyes out for Equalized values when they are released on August 15th.
Globalization has one glaring problem for countries (like the USA) with wages above the global median - the wages in those countries WILL be forced down closer to the median. It has been happening for years and will continue to happen. It MUST happen - in education too. SUcks, yes. But it must happen.
Until the MGSD board and teachers address the economic reality of today head-on, your budget will never be 'fixed'. Ever!
Reality bites.
http://www.modbee.com/2010/03/17/1092172/ceres-teachers-asked-to-take-pay.html
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/vista/article_10594df9-27e3-54b0-a846-68a7138259c7.html
http://www.theacorn.com/news/2010-03-04/Front_Page/Las_Virgenes_administrators_accept_cut_in_pay.html
http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/03/23/2037155/no-outrage-from-parents-over-fort.html
http://www.bakersfield.com/news/local/x1543187523/School-district-proposes-dramatic-teacher-pay-cuts
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=366738
I can go on, but you get the picture. Wisconsin is not an island of prosperity in a sea of economic woe. Wisconsin is an ostrich with it's head planted deep up it's own...
CG or Monona.
Also, does anyone see the possibility that maybe the extended busing is a trade off to having the middle school in CG? If we didn't bus kids both directions now there might be more money in the budget to cover the proposed walk radius. They used to share busses and I know many kids who rode them and liked it that way just fine. I'm not complaining about sending my kids to CG for middle school. I'm NOT worried about that a bit. As I said, I had many friends who bused the other direction and survived just fine. But now there are twice as many buses going in opposite directions in a time when gas prices are quite high. If you didn't see that as a strain on the budget that might some day cause changes, you not looking or thinking clearly.
And for the IMC cuts, why do they only affect CG? Are we leaving them with NO IMC staff while leaving Monona's intact? As a Monona parent, I would say that absolutely doesn't seem fair. I don't want to lose IMC staff any more than anyone else, but it should be a fair and equal cut between communities. Why would you only cut CG? Please explain.
Quit stacking the deck and pitting us against each other! Look for other cuts that will be more equal. There has to be something else on the list that would be. I don't want to see these cuts anymore than anyone else, but at least you could make them fair. I'm guessing that these were the next cuts on the list that would have come anyway. Please look a little farther down to see if there is one that may be more equal.
In the long run, it will always be cheaper to bus kids from the community where there are fewer kids to the community where there are more kids. That used to be from CG to Monona; now it is Monona to CG.
And remember that the district saves a lot of money -- or should be able to -- by having the high school in Monona, because the majority of kids in the high school are from CG, and for at least two and maybe three years of their HS career are able to drive themselves to school. (Ask anyone whose been around, and the number of kids driving to school compared to 20 years ago is way higher.)
It is inevitable in this district, unfortunately, that budget cuts will be compared between the two communities. The one way to avoid that is to have the cuts fall on the one place where the two communtities come together most often, and that's at the high school. So if you really want to avoid cuts that "pit" the two communities against each other, start with athletics, the musical, show choirs, and other extra-curricular activities. The kids in those activities and organizations don't really care where they come from, and neither do the parents who volunteer to help out those organizations.
That would be "more equal." I'm not sure how popular it would be.
Some of my post didn't show up. I must not have copied and pasted correctly when the site timed out on me. Please add this to my statement above....
Nice way to keep the district united Peter! I expected better of you!
It might help to mention that the reason the busing issue falls mostly on Cottage Grove is because the sheriff's department decides whether or not the kids can be bussed. Monona is deemed unsafe since it only has 2 sidewalks in the entire city. Most kids would have to walk in the street which the sheriff's department considers hazardous, as would most parents, I hope from CG or Monona.
Nice way to keep the district united Peter! I expected better of you!
Seriously, Peter. Your recent post that throws fuel on the rift between communities is shameful. You just put my Monona vote for you in jeopardy. It is your responsibillity to be helpful, and please don't tell me that it just states the facts.
The reason for the busing was stated. The libaries in CG have a full-time teacher, a position that will remain, so they can be open during all school hours. Because of the 2 buildings in Monona,the one full time teacher must travel thus having to close the IMC's for 50% of the day if there is not a paraprofessional. I am not saying it is right/wrong, just giving the reasoning I have heard at meetings.
Mr. Sobol,
Your above post shows me that you present a biased view under the guise of district leadership. The cuts effect our whole district. Quit pandering to the Cottage Grove vote. I live in the Grove and I am NOT going to vote for you because of your post above. When will the board start acting like adults?
No one seemed to care when Maywood and Winnequah started sharing a librarian last year. If those schools didn't have an asst., the libraries would be closed for HALF THE DAY. Taylor Prarie, CG, Glacial Drumlin and the HS will still all have certified librarians on staff 100% of the time. Maywood and Winnequah already don't. You are arguing that only Cottage Grove schools deserve to have librarians. Maywood schools have already been doing with much less. Please try to think outside of your interests.
Maywood and Winnequah shared a librarian last year because the enrollments at the two schools -- around 400 students at the most -- didn't justify a full-time librarian compared to the full-time librarians serving both TP and CG elementary schools, both with enrollments of around 400 (CG above 400). Resources follow students -- you can't just say "Monona" deserves as many resources as "Cottage Grove" when there are twice as many elementary students in one community compared to the other.
"In the long run, it will always be cheaper to bus kids from the community where there are fewer kids to the community where there are more kids. That used to be from CG to Monona; now it is Monona to CG."
Actually, it is always cheaper in the long run to bus kids from the community where there isn't space to the community with extra capacity. This may require grade reconfiguration, but that is better than idling assets (buildings) and asking taxpayers to build new assets somewhere else (that still require busing).
"...the busing issue falls mostly on Cottage Grove is because the sheriff's department decides whether or not the kids can be bussed. Monona is deemed unsafe since it only has 2 sidewalks in the entire city..."
The problem is not the Sheriff, who applies equal standards everywhere. The problem is the fact that Monona hasn't invested in sidewalks for kids while CG has.
Hmmm... I'm looking at the post and trying to figure if I did something wrong. The post is, I think, factually accurate, the board has discussion Wednesday along those lines. It is also a response to the comment above asking about the distribution of cuts between communities - it was my impression that the commentor was of a mind that the cuts effected Monona students more, when this isn't the case. So I was trying to correct what I think is an inaccurate impression.
Other commentors have talked about the logic behind those cuts, which is valid (Monona doesn't have sidewalks, the elementary students are in smaller buildings requiring more library staff per student, etc.), but that doesn't change the impact of the cuts.
Lastly I think information is the panacea to the issues of division, so I'm not going to obfuscate the facts when I have them. If that means you can't vote for me, I certainly understand! I knew that expressing myself on this blog would cost me some votes, but that's not important to me.
I think those who assume the Sheriff's department just showed up in Monona one day of its own volition and declared those hazard areas needs to find someone who was on the board in those days. My hazy recollection is that it did not happen that way. The board, dominated by Monona members, was about to cut busing in Monona and somebody, somehow, wrangled getting those areas declared hazardous. Any old timers around who remember that? I bet Bill Breisch might know something about it.
Peter-
Two questions: Shouldn't the IMC cuts affect all the schools according to number of kids? If they are being cut in all schools, and CGS for example has 400 kids, and there are 400 kids in Monona between two schools, shouldn't the cuts be the same? Yes, Monona has insisted on having their 400 kids in 2 schools, but isn't that a little of having your cake and eating it too? The ratio should be the same. If we had all moved to Winnequah then we would have one librarian and no library aide-- due to our number of kids. It should be the same.
And
Why do we still bus our Maywood and Winnequah kids seperately? In front of my house there is a half empty bus to pick up Maywood kids, and right behind it, a half empty bus for Winnequah Kids. Wouldn't it be more energy efficient, and cheaper to the district to run as few buses through Monona as possible, since the schools are so close=I am sure the green charter school folks would agree with that one.
The furthur cuts should be more fair, and not all based on the fact that we have two schools. We need to share the additional burden more fairly.
Peter, don't you have an obligation to correct all the misperceptions and misinformation that are presented as facts on your blog? By letting people misrepresent the facts, you are directly contributing to the division between our two communities. I don't know why you let it happen. And why does it appear that it's ok to badmouth certain members of the board on your blog while you stand up for others? You should take some hints from your fellow board bloggers and be fair to everyone. Maybe that's why Jason and Jessica don't have as many mean posts.
This thread is a bit more active than most, so I'm probably not doing as good a job keeping up as usual. If you have any specifics where you think I am being unfair - please point them out to me. But people ARE entitled to their opinions about members of the board, including me.
If people have misperceptions, I want to hear them - for the most part other people respond and correct them, I do it when I can too. If you see something, respond to it, or ask me too -this should be a dialog.
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The IMC specialists question: this is one that is hard to sort out - do kids have equal access to resources based on the resource/student ratio, or the time that resource is available to the student? Or is it both? I think it depends on the nature of the work being done and I'm not sure what the answer is in this case.
Busing- Its not how many kids are on the bus when it gets to your house, but how many are on when it gets to school. Two routes that exceed the bus capacity can't be combined. I don't know about this particular issue (I will ask) but John Vandermerwe does a good job managing these routes for maximum efficiency - whenever I question particular bus routes John always has a good answer as to why it is the way it is.
I should parse my comment above about Susan Fox's comments at the meeting. People seem to think "politics" is a more negative word than I do. But Susan did echo Mike Mikalsons's use of the word, and I use it in the same sense he did: the consideration of the sentiments of differentiated groups of the community. Susan didn't say it was a "poor" fiscal or educational decision, what she did say there were educational reasons to support consolidation and it was fiscally an "easy" way to save money. Its my interpretation that doing the opposite reflects a poor decision on those grounds.
My personal view is that the educational and fiscal reasons, most noteably the savings from the consolidation outweight those political considerations. I'm not saying we shouldn't consider political issues, just that we will be more successful if we rank them relatively low when compared to the educational and fiscal issues.
I'm also convinced that there is a misreading of the political issues here. As I talk to more people I become more convinced that the community sentiment on average in Monona is that the consolidation makes sense.
Peter, what happens to the open enrollment if they do close Maywood? I have some friends who live in Fitchburg that DO NOT want to send their kids to Madison. Their siblings went to Monona on open enrollment and they've been very happy. My friends are hoping to send their kids here. Should they look for a back up?
Also, do all schools pay for their road improvements like residents do or was the $3 million we paid for the road at GD an exception? We were told we wouldn't pay for that when the referendum was sold to us. Will we get that $ back? I heard we would. If so, when will that happen? That could certainly help us during this crisis!
"Actually, it is always cheaper in the long run to bus kids from the community where there isn't space to the community with extra capacity."
Actually, the statement above is incorrect. Last year's Ad-Hoc Committee to Study Grade Configuration looked at this issue to determine whether it would be cost-effective to bus CG students to Winnequah. What they found was that it was not. It would actually be cheaper to add modular units in CG than to bus those students to Monona. Peter, please correct me if I'm wrong.
1) It is generally cheaper to provide local facilities than to bus elementary students. Modular units, for example can be provided for something like $17K/year (after installation costs) vs. $35K for a single bus route. The 4k-8 study concluded that it would be cheaper to provide modular units than move elementary kids from CG to Monona. Building construction can be cheaper that busing if compared to the total costs over decades.
2) With all Monona 4k-5 students (~425), Winnequah will be significantly under its total capacity of 575, so there is plenty of room for OE students. In fact Winnequah has bigger classrooms making for more flexibility in accommodating OE students if desired.
3) It is normal and customary for the property owner, including school districts, to pay for infrastructure improvements that serve a facility, including new infrastructure to serve new facilities. For example the school district paid both Madison and Monona for work done on Coldspring last year, and has paid in the past when schools have been constructed in Monona. For GD, the road construction projects were around $2M, these include the intersection at BB and the portion of Damascus that runs along the school property. To offset these costs the district raised about $500K from the planned sale of property on the other side of Damascus, and we still have additional property there which we hope to sell in the future to raise another $500K or so. The remainder was paid for out of interest on the construction loan for the building. The ~$1M that will be net to the district did not come out of the referendum principal.
So were we told it wasn't going to be paid for by the district at all or just not by the referendum budget?
Is it 2006 all over again? The road improvements near Glacial Drumlin had to be done for the safety of getting kids to school. The board didn't say they wouldn't pay for the road; they just didn't include any money for it specifically in the referendum question, and said they would figure that out later. All kinds of infrastructure improvements have been paid for by the district over the years -- Coldspring and the traffic light at the HS being among them.
And what difference does it make to anything?
Just curious because it speaks to the integrity of someone who was on the board at the time. I'm not arguing need, just clarifying things I have heard in order to know how it was really done. And I was curious if we could get some of that money back to help us now.
Jeesh!! Do you blindly have to agree with everything "Peter" in order to post on this blog without being attacked? Can't someone come here for information as well? A simple answer to the question would have been fine, thank you.
So, Peter, when does the district plan to try to recoup that $500K? Now seems like a great time! That could help offset the $260K lost with keeping Maywood open for another year and keep the highly debated IMC staff and related arts staff cuts and maybe even help with the busing issue if you got the whole $260K (or more!). Granted there's no guarantee it would sell, but you could try, right?
"The remainder was paid for out of interest on the construction loan for the building. The ~$1M that will be net to the district did not come out of the referendum principal."
Peter-I have more respect for you when you DO NOT try to parse language and outcomes like some sort of politician. You are nothing more than a school board member try being honest.
The use of interest on money from the referendum to build the road was misleading and your statement is just incorrect-the money used came from referendum monies.
IF the referendum money was not there-the interest would not have been there-right?
The public was sold a bill of goods on this one-you know it. We have discussed on the this blog-
I don't think we will get full value for the property at this point due to the economy, and I think we should wait until we can.
I also have an objection on principal of using sales of property to fund operating costs - it is not an sustainable practice. Nor can it be considered balancing the budget, instead it is a net expenditure of the assets of the district. IMHO sales of property should be used for capital improvements, placed in a capital reserve or to pay down capital debt.
And no, I don't think I'm parsing the issue, and no the statement isn't misleading. The statement is accurate and the same thing I say anytime anyone asks. You are free to interpret whether or not you "sold a bill of goods" on your own.
Not to rehash the road debate, but...
A) Peter was not on the school board when decisions were made about the road improvements needed for Glacial Drumlin.
B) If the citizens of the district didn't like the decisions made by the board about the road, they were free to vote them out of office.
C) B actually happened! Two members of the board at the time who were involved in the road debate were voted off by district voters.
D) The school board continues to face difficult questions that require tough votes. Two current members of the board are up for re-election next week. If you don't like the decisions they have made, don't vote for them!
I noticed there is also a MG Parent on this thread. We are two different people.
With regards to the GD road, I felt a little ripped off with the issue, but I do feel the district (through both Monona and CG) should have paid for much of the improvements. The school is used by the District, and students of both communities, similar to the road by the High School. The District (including Monona) should pay for improvements just like any home owner.
Where I felt ripped off, was the rumor (which I don't know the truth) that the District paid for the entire road (past the school, and connecting with the next block). I thought when Cold Springs was done in Monona, the City paid some, and the District paid some. It seems that the Village and other home owners should contribute based upon frontage. Again, I don't know if either of these histories are correct, and any comment by Mr. Sobol is appreciated.
Even if true, I would highly doubt we'll be able to get the money back, and so I have moved on. This wasn't a campaign issue for the referendum or Mr. Sobol, and I wouldn't blame him for the error if it is true (he wasn't on the board at the time). Lastly, if the cost was 1 million, over the life of the school, that probably becomes about $10-$20 in extra taxes. We're keeping Maywood open at the extra cost of $1 million every 4 years, I think the road will last longer then that.
The board needs to be diligent in avoiding rip-offs and learn from mistakes (if this was one). Voters need to evaluate the board members on their abilities to do both.
Road building is complicated. It essentially works like this:
-- Local governments (in this case, the village of Cottage Grove) don't pay for any infrastructure improvements tied to "development" -- those improvements are paid for entirely by the developer(s) of property adjoining the improved streets (along with water and sewer lines). The theory is that villages/cities don't spend money for such improvements absent development; if development is what leads to the need for new roads and such, the developer pays for those.
-- The village, after suggesting during the referendum that it would help with such road costs, chose not to, leaving it up entirely to the school district. (It's worth noting that the one village official most responsible for uttering those assurances was also voted out of office after the village declined to pick up any road costs.)
-- Road improvements near Glacial Drumlin extend only as far as the property owned by the district -- the district owns lots of land (now ballfields) north of the school.
-- Improvements to existing roads (now talking Monona) are often shared by both the municipality and the adjoining property owner. That's what happened with Cold Springs -- the road already existed, but was improved (new pavement, better curbs), and so the city and the property owner (MG) shared in those costs. Most road improvements you see in Monona are financed similarly -- shared between the city and the adjoining property owners. (The traffic light, added to the Monona Drive/Coldsprings intersection when the new high school was opened 10 years ago, was paid for entirely by the district, with the county arguing there was no need for the light until the district decided to change how people drove to the high school.)
"- Improvements to existing roads (now talking Monona) are often shared by both the municipality and the adjoining property owner. That's what happened with Cold Springs -- the road already existed, but was improved (new pavement, better curbs), and so the city and the property owner (MG) shared in those costs. Most road improvements you see in Monona are financed similarly -- shared between the city and the adjoining property owners. (The traffic light, added to the Monona Drive/Coldsprings intersection when the new high school was opened 10 years ago, was paid for entirely by the district, with the county arguing there was no need for the light until the district decided to change how people drove to the high school.)"
You know I really do not care about that road or the issues surrounding it.
It just irked me a little when a revisionist history is being told to the public.
I say we move on-
Yup, CG officials no longer in office did not come through with assurances on the road. No conspiracy, just people not coming through with promises. Nothing new there. Move on? Yes indeedy!
Peter, I'm still waiting for an answer from you about what happened to the Board's assurances that Maywood would never close if GDS was built. You detailed how the referendum was a great thing for our district but you totally ignored my question about how you all promised that the referendum would keep Maywood alive. What happened to that? What about THAT CONTRACT with the public.?
Maywood was kept open -- when the referendum question was framed, which is now nearly five years ago (late 2005/early 2006) -- in part because the district was (relatively) flush with case. Enrollments were growing, the state was increasing funding for schools, and the district could "afford" to keep it open. Keeping it open didn't jeopardize any existing programs.
Now it does.
Enrollments are stagnant, the economy is in the tank, the state has pulled back on its commitment to public schools, and the district has a $1 million deficit.
No one the board, to anyone's recollection, "promised" that Maywood would stay open. It was kept open at the time because the district could afford to keep it open.
The district can still afford to keep it open, but doing so -- and no one should think otherwise -- means program cuts in other areas. That may be a fine trade-off for some. But it's not for others -- there will be some real losses in programs and teachers to this district if this decision is not reversed.
i am not sure how logical it is to vote in Pickel over Manning..... if you want someone with no experience in what matters... than i guess you have your candidate. i feel we already have enough of that on the board- McCutchin has no experience other than accounting and none in education. Does it make sense? No way!
When you consider the real role of the board, financial and management experience is IMHO significantly more important that knowledge of education. After all the district has lots of education experts.
Jason's financial experience as well as his committee service made him the most qualified of the 3 news candidates last year. Jennifer's qualifications, including PTO president and committee service are equivalent or better than that of some of the candidates elected last year.
Exactly whose qualifications are you referring to, Peter?
When you consider the real role of the board, financial and management experience is IMHO significantly more important that knowledge of education. After all the district has lots of education experts.
I disagree, we need board members who know education-because they don't respect or follow the advice of the MG experts in education (Maywood). The administration and staff clearly communicated what they felt was best for the district- and they were ignored. Not education experts, I guess.
Reducing art, music and PE minutes affects 100% of the 3-5 graders, plus K-2 to a lesser extent. I LOVE strings but feel a program that affects 70% of 4th graders should be cut before one that affects so many more students. I wish we would have closed Maywood to keep all our great programs but that didn't happen.
"Exactly whose qualifications are you referring to, Peter?"
And, I should add, better than MY qualifications when I ran first time!
I have posted a response on my blog (http://jasonmccutchin.blogspot.com/) to the following post:
When you consider the real role of the board, financial and management experience is IMHO significantly more important that knowledge of education. After all the district has lots of education experts.
I disagree, we need board members who know education-because they don't respect or follow the advice of the MG experts in education (Maywood). The administration and staff clearly communicated what they felt was best for the district- and they were ignored. Not education experts, I guess.
Here are my suggestions to make the board work better.
1. Stop talking to each other through blogs. If you can't stop-resign.
2. Do not assume the worse about your board colleagues motives. If you can't see your way around this one-resign.
3. A natural tendency is to balme indviduals for causing problems. The truth is that many probelms arise because the group lets them happen or even encourages them in some way.
If you have a problem with a fellow member do not scream from the roof tops, give them a call and talk about it in person. If you can not sit down and talk about person-to-person-resign from the board and work on your communication skills.
May I suggest you all read the TEAM HANDBOOK by joiner? It seems to me you folks have not even got beyond forming.
SPeaking of the Sheriff's department (earlier in this thread), didn't they accept a paycut this year?
I ask, why not teachers?
Hi Peter, there are a lot of comments suggesting that teachers/staff take a pay freeze or pay cut. Please help me understand this better. It seems to me that in order to solve this problem long-term, that would mean that the pay freeze/cuts would have to stay in place indefinately.
When people suggest this as a way to balance the budget aren't they really suggesting that teachers and staff take these cuts permanantly since taking them temporarily would then only solve the problem temporarily?
I didn't think that the major reason we're in this budget crisis is because of the bad economy, but because of the way we fund public schools. Until that's solved, even pay freezes, pay cuts and furlough days would only be only short-term solutions, wouldn't they? When the economy turns around, won't we still have the same funding and budget problems that we have now if something isn't done at a state level?
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