At last week's meeting the board voted not to pursue recovery of about $30K in over payments to several teachers made a few years ago. This decision was based in part on the idea that we would not be allowed to simply deduct the amounts owed from paychecks and would therefore incur significant costs and difficulties retrieving the money. It turns out this isn't true: we can recover the money through deductions. Based on this new information the board voted last night to undo last weeks vote and reconsider the matter.
This doesn't mean the district will necessarily pursue the overpayments, just that the board will consider the issue again at a future meeting.
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I found the board's original vote troubling on this matter.
Me too. You can bet that if my tax bill was accidentally calculated incorrectly, I'd still have to pony up.
"I'd still have to pony up."
Yes, the board seemed to be trying to buy goodwill with the teachers and the union-to heck with that one.
I think the board's original vote can be justified on the following grounds:
It would've cost the board a lot of money in legal fees to pursue a (relatively) small amount of money. The board isn't exactly operating in the dark here; they know how this union operates, and it operates largely to oppose most if not all financial initiatives proferred by the board. If the board sought the back wages, it's not as if THIS union would roll over and hand over the money. They'd fight it, litigate it, grieve it, and push back on it, in a process that would surely last years (not months -- years).
Is that worth it? For a $100,000 in back wages, sure. For $27,000 and change? It might cost that much to fight this particular union.
But, right is right. Right? The bottom line is that they stole that money out of taxpayer pockets. They didn't earn it, they should give it back.
And if there is incompetence at the District Office, that should be dealt with immediately as well. I can tell you for certain that if I made a $27,000 mistake at MY job, it wouldn't by my job for very long.
Where is the accountability on either side of this issue??
"The bottom line is that they stole that money out of taxpayer pockets."
Sorry, but it was a teacher that noticed the error. It came from a pay freeze getting getting unfrozen after 10 years. Basically the teachers got some of the money they had earned, but said they wouldn't take in hopes of making the public happy. Nobody falsified a form, or submitted something they shouldn't have.
"And if there is incompetence at the District Office, that should be dealt with immediately as well."
Wrong again, it was a private firm that came in to work on the payroll. It can often be cheaper to have a private group do work, and there's a ton of pressure to save money all the time in school districts, but you get what you pay for.
I'm neutral on the issue. If the board can get the money back at little cost, great. If the expense will be more then $25,000 it's clearly not worth it.
On a side issue, teachers should get paid more, especially those that who got burnt by the public by showing good will 15 years ago. It's no wonder why they're fighting for their benefits, teachers seem to be hated by this district.
re:If the expense will be more then $25,000 it's clearly not worth it.
Now as I do the math on my own post, probably 5-6k of the money went to the feds for taxes and social security. So it's probably around $20,000 the board should use to evaluate recovery vs. cost.
""The bottom line is that they stole that money out of taxpayer pockets."
"
But they did take it. It does not matter who found the error. The teachers took money that was not legally theirs. If I go to Menards today and the clerk makes a mistake and gives me an extra $100. I notice the error, but the cleark does not.
Is it legal for me to keep the money? Is it moral? Who noticed the error is not part of the argument. The teachers should give back the money and say get your crap straight-ed out.
"eachers seem to be hated by this district."
Not True! I do not like teachers who act imoral and use and twist children for their own purposes.
It seems unlikely that anyone would lose their job over a 0.03% error - that kind of thing happens all the time in any organization.
"If I go to Menards today and the clerk makes a mistake and gives me an extra $100. I notice the error, but the cleark does not."
To be more accurate, it would be to ask, "what if I go to Menards today, and the clerk makes a mistake and gives me an extra quarter, and neither I nor the clerk notice it."
The ammount on each check to each of the 40 some teachers was probably around $10-$20, and their checks would have gone up at that time for their raise. It's not like they got a big check in the mail and didn't say something, it would have been very hard to spot.
If it wasn't for the teacher that did figure it out, and then spoke up, it would probably still be happening. I think the fact that a teacher helped the administration is very relavent and it clearly shows that at least one is moral.
"it clearly shows that at least one is moral."
Not really. Hi, I noticed that you gave me an extra quarter today. This is a quarter that you, clearly, did not mean to give to me. It is your quarter, but I will keep it.
Then everyone who has ever gotten an extra quarter from a store is immoral. The teachers have a lot of company.
"Then everyone who has ever gotten an extra quarter from a store is immoral."
No. If someone gives you something in error and you know it is an error and you did not earn the gain. Don't you have a moral obligation to say-here I think you made a mistake.
In the example above, you don't know you got anything extra, just like the teachers. I think most people feel there needs to be some knowledge of the deed to be immoral.
Once you realized the error, the moral thing is to speak up, like the teacher did. As I said before
"I think the fact that a teacher helped the administration is very relavent and it clearly shows that at least one is moral." You can't really judge the others, because you don't know what they would have done in the same situation. I suspect some would have said something, and some would not, but I don't know.
Now the question is should the teachers return the money. In the Menards example, if the manager called you a few days later and said "We know the clerk gave you $.25," would you rush down to give it back? Would you agree to pay another quarter on your next purchase? Maybe these are the honest thing to do, but I don't think someone would be called immoral if they didn't do anything.
I think most people would say get over it and move past it.
I think it would be great if the teachers did pay back, especially since the total off all the small payments added up so a significant ammount, but I can understand how the teachers feel. They did the "moral" thing to help the district and took a pay freeze, and what did it get them? If they give it back, are people going to suddenly say, "we have moral teachers, let's see that they get good wages and benefits!" I doubt it.
If the teachers do pay, they should not have to pay back the Social Security, or the income tax that was taken out, nor should the teachers pay for the legal or accountant fees for the district to do it. If anything, the district should go after the payroll company that screwed up. It was their mistake that's costing the district money.
Don't make the payroll company the scapegoat here. The district tells the payroll company what to pay, so it's the district's fault.
"The district tells the payroll company what to pay, so it's the district's fault."
Then the district should pay, and has done so, so they should move on.
Paychecks are complicated, with tax and benefit deductions that change each year. Each of the teachers involved was given a reconciliation sheet that also contained the error - so if a teacher checked that against their paycheck they would still not find the error. The teacher would have to check their paycheck against the master agreement schedule, remembering to subtract the step freeze year (1993) from their longevity.
Get our money back.
Peter, publish the names of the teachers. I think it would prove to a way to get our money back. It is public information.
Peter, please find a few teachers for the mob of this town to chase with pitch forks and burn at the stake.
"Peter, please find a few teachers for the mob of this town to chase with pitch forks and burn at the stake."
Especially the ones who approved using our kids as pawns.
The money paid to those teachers was calculated by the district and par tof a total salary package, whcih included both pay and benefits. While some extra money was misallocated to some teachers, all the other teachers were underallocated the same amount, again it is a district salary package.
If the district decided to pursue recovering the misallocation to some of the teachers, which would cost the district hours of time, I would expect the union to fight for the calculation error that occured throughout the entire salary schedule to be fixed, recalculated and re distributed to all the other teachers.
In other words, there should have been more money added to the base pay of the salary schedule, upon which every teachers salary is then figured and paid out to all the teachers. Even those teachers who were originally overpaid would get some of it back.
Perhaps, the district made a wise decision not to pursue invest in the recovery of these funds and cut their loses, before they are redistributed for a net gain of lots of employee hours lost.
get the compensation, it's the fair thing to do, except for the teacher who was honest and reported it. They should keep to keep the extra for being honest, unlike the other ones who noticed but did not say anything.
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